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Plot twist: we are living in a simulation and our real bodies are from another dimension. Hell/Heaven is the reward/punishment that awaits when we exit this simulation by dying.
The only reason id see for people not to plug into the experience machine is memories of their past life hindering on their pleasures (regret maybe) and distrust of the technology. In a hypothetical world where the memories are erased and the technology is trusted, im not so sure if everyone would say the same thing.
The experience machine is Infinite Tsukuyomi
Oh nice, Laurie Anderson fan
People who live life like a bowl full of candy, end up with a life full cavities.
All I know is that shirt is PAINFUL.
how do I know I´m not currently in one of those machines?
Madara Uchiha
Humans are beasts of burden. Without pursuing something we value as meaningful, then pleasure alone won't make us happy.
do you want to talk a little faster?
Your basic senses tell you what can be eaten, how bright is good, how loud is good, what is poisonous and where you can sit. Unfotunately some people are masochists and actively hurt themselves to feel good.
If you knew your life was fake you wouldn't really enjoy it, thus happiness is again the end-goal. Hedonism wins.
"Poopshow"
It seems like this video is discussing several different thought experiments as if they're the same.
We're asked to consider a machine capable of simulating constant pleasurable experiences indistinguishable from "real life". Why later it is said the machine can malfunction? This malfunction cannot result in an unpleasant experience, otherwise the machine is not as described. So which is the case?
For me personally it makes no sense to deny the simulation, because once that's possible, you can't guarantee that you're not already in one, in which case you'd be basically trading a simulation for a better one.
I don't know, I feel like they just threw some random arguments, though of course it is hard to discuss this in a short format.
Yes ,please a machine now
"A great question mark must be placed over the value of what is easy; not only over its consequences, but over the thing itself, over the predilection for everything that doesn’t demand some sort of overcoming from us, that neither puts us in question nor forces us to rise to our potential." Estanislao Zuleta. If this hard reality is also a simulation I would argue this is the best type of simuation I can think of. I also think our ability to validate our pleasure, so to feel it more instensely is in others, so the more other people accept our ideas or at least our journey to get to them, the more valid the pleasure is therefore the higher.
awesome shirt. What is it and where can I get one?
this just opens up numerous problematic and paradoxical thoughts for me…. Pleasure may be desired but it doesn't necessarily equate with purpose and meaning which may also be desired.
Jesus is the secret to a good life.
I think the coolest thing I learned from this video is what the "E" stood for in Chuck E. Cheese
I haven't watched the video yet, but I predict the answer is no. Pleasure does not equal a good life. My life has been abundant in resources and entertainment. Still, for a while, I was sad, dejected. I would not call it true depression, but it was bad. I felt like I had no purpose. Lately, I've been more productive and happier. I'm writing a book. Participating in a jazz band. Life hasn't gotten more or less pleasurable, exactly, but I'm not having the feeling of wasting my time. I can look back at what I've done and say, "I did that. I wrote fifty pages and ideas are bubbling out still. I can play that technical song like 'Mary had a little lamb'." I have something to show from my efforts. Skills. Stories. The friends I made. Now, I'm going to watch this video.
EDIT (Post-video watching): I felt I wasn't accomplishing anything in life at first, because I spent so much time on Youtube. Youtube is not bad, but I could spend hours at a time on it and when a whole Saturday is wasted away, I feel terrible. I realize my precious time on Earth is being wasted. I won't even remembe most of the stuff I watched the next day.
I think the premise of the machine is not taken literal by some. there is the argument that without pain you cant experience happiness jet the premise of the machine is that you do experience happiness so no problem there! also questioning weather or not the machine could malfunction is again against the premise witch means that thought is pointless. I feel like most arguments against the machine go against its premiss and are therefore invalid.
At 3:52 – My first thought was actually a certain episode of Batman Beyond where Max, the brilliant yet poor secondary character, becomes addicted to an actual experience machine. Her desired experiences are where her family is financially comfortable and emotionally present, where they congratulate her for her achievements and love her like a healthy family would. Unlike her real life. v_v Man, I really need that second season box set….
I'm not having a good life, but I'm working on it! Still wrangling with hedonism, though…
Does the 'E' in 'Chuck E. Cheese' really stand for 'Entertainment'? Wow, Chuck's parents were weird.
I think the experience we are getting in this reality or dimension or call it whatever is the optimal experience if you think about it in a pantheism point of view, or God!
Bad is good and goog is good too.
I am unwell.
How could you know what you want
would you unlock adding subtitle?
The only reason I would not choose to plug in was that I would be worried about others. Are other people doing well? Does the world still suffer from starvation? Is there still something I could be doing? (That's not to say I would devote my life to doing "good things" but if I was stuck in the EM, I would not be able to do any good, and would be party to hurting people, which would make me feel bad, which would make the experiences less fun, and would ruin the good life.)
Similarly, if I didn't know that there was anything outside the EM, that other people were being hurt, I would be happy in it, and think it a good life. But if I know that people are hurting and still choose to completely abandon them, I would feel bad, which would get rid of the pleasure that I believe makes a good life
How am I doing. Hmm….. I feel like I am lacking in purpose.
If the experience machine can provide intelligent minds (either through networking with other people, or through true AI), then I'm down, because then am I really missing out on anything?
I find this channel so helpful for me. It helps me figure out productive ways I could think about my life's most challenging problems. Thank you, Mike. 🙂
i would never plug in my ENTIRE life. Mainly because I'm afraid of the feeling I'd get when i came out of the machine an old dying man and realizing that everything I've done is a farce.
Through the lens of a camera, the world looks just a little duller. Detail is lost, and things are simplified. Convert that image into a jpg, and lots of data is cut to make it fit. This is the problem of simulation; even the best copy of reality is parsed down, and loses the richness of reality. Choices, challenges and random occurrences would of course be simulated (or else, there would be no context for pleasure), but would be imperfect because we'd start to see the formula that's being followed to generate them. And for the person in the simulation, that would just be grating.
but why is truth so important? It cannot even be proved that this "reality" is truthful, just as the civilians in the matrix understood that the matrix was their reality. Surely if a EM was introduced within the matrix, people would have the same doubts and feelings towards the machine as people do in our reality, but an argument would discount those feelings by saying "this experience isn't real anyway," therefore legitimising arguments against using the EM .
life of Roy lol
The only think I would worry about entering the machine is the machine malfuctioning thanks to external events (war, the Earth ending, etc)
I do think a good life is about good experiences, and I'm an existential hedonist, I think in the future an experience machine should exist, for those who chose to live like that… why would an external experience be true and one within the machine not? what is true?
What would I think about about? "…is this thing gonna get sticky?". However another thought would be, instead of a Matrix Machine to give you fake happiness… What about a Lobotomy?
I think the reason why we would be skeptic is that we feel as if we are being limited somehow, as if the real world is more expansive, more valuable and more hopeful than any world we could expect to create.
After all, it was not, then why wouldn't (a) Trueman be skeptical in the slightest in seeking to exit the false world? Despite not having ever known what is ''real'', he would seek to find out even if he in no way could have known if it were better or worse.
I would argue that this is a sentiment that all of us would feel for the reason that what we share is the desire to not be limited – a sort of claustrophobic instinct If I had to describe it.
For example, consider the following thought experiment: You are faced with 3 choices. One is to enter a fictional world as is depicted in the video. The second option is to remain in your world. The third option is to enter a spiritual, immaterial world, where ''the illusory restrictions of the flesh no longer apply and the unity of nature and consciousness is apparent''.
The third world is – in an intuitive sense – much more ''real'' than what we experience, so some us would at least instinctively feel the desire to experience it as being less limited than ours, in much the opposite sense in which we would be skeptical in experiencing the ''fictional world''.
This part is just my personal speculation, but I believe this conundrum and interpretation is why religion seems so beguiling to people. Not so much because it offers them an answer for the uknown, or an escape from suffering. Not so much either because the ''other place'' promised is amiable, but because it feels as if transcending a world we were not meant to live in from the start. In this analogy, perhaps hell is the ''fictional world'', differentiated from heaven only in that hell is more restrictive, at least much more than it is filled with suffering.
Being in a "Simulated experience machine" would be a very sad Fake life..speaks volumes on behalf of who wishes to plug in. What is Important is to be in the moment, life is too short to mess around.
Can't help but think about "chipheads" from the Shadowrun universe, these people who are addicted to BTL (Better Than Life: technology that makes you live any experience in a perfect virtual reality) always needing more sensations, more extreme experiences.
Pleasure is temporary, and relying on sensual pleasure only implies a constant craving for more thrills, always more intense.
Not to mention: experiences would be designed to be the most pleasurable for us at some fixed point in time.
No confontations, then, no realisation, no personal growth.
We'd be stuck in our development and our self-absorbed fantasies for life. How depressing.
The secret to a good life (as in "happy" which seemed to be the angle here), in my very humble opinion, is to solve the problem of life's vacuity.
Either believe deep down that there's a meaning, or find a way to cope with the fact that there isn't (methods may greatly differ, depending on people's values and mental&emotional "default state").
Good is something we know because we know bad as well… I reckon if we'd be bathed in a "good machine" we'd just lose track of what bad is, and end up getting used to good and ultimately bored by it. #mytwocents
I would think that one of the biggest problems with the EM would be that you probably can't have the "best" experiences. Sure, it can fulfill all of your wishes, but can it do it right? Say you want to read the next book in the Song of Ice and Fire- you can make your virtual universe Martin finish the book tomorrow, but it would be your mind that wrote it, and odds are it wouldn't be that great of a book. I think the Experience Machine would be an awful lot more tempting if it were, say, the Humanity Machine, with all of mankind plugged in (and probably some people cycling in and out to make sure it doesn't break) on a single network of billions of smaller, personally made worlds. Though it does make the impact point a little shakier, since you would be able to influence other people from within the machine, my point is that it seems like there's only really so much time a person can be amused purely by the contents of their own mind. Social pleasures would eventually ring hollow as all of the "npcs" start to feel to familiar and more introverted pleasures would dry up from a lack of new ideas from other creators. A true hedonist might not enjoy the Experience Machine either, specifically because it's just all the stuff you wanted all the time with nothing new and unexpected, just… pretty good, familiar things.
Besides not wanting to leave the world behind I believe that life shouldn't be all good and happy times and it doesn't seem desireable to always feel joy or pleasure or even calm. If I never had mental dips how would I have the energy to keep experiencing the highs? I've had depression for a long time and honestly I don't think my brain would be able to handle a constant input of positivity and enrichment. It seems like it would be just as exhausting as a constant input of negativity, I think.